Statcounter Hidden Links??

[soulja90]

Hi guys!

I was reading up on google and they said something about hidden links is considered wrong.

Than I looked at my stat counter code and say that you guys are hiding links and anchor text.

Is that wrong or ok?

Thanks

JB

[gen]

I've wondered about this too.

[soulja90]

Hello,

First i don't know why you are offended? Its a simple question. Are you using hidden links or not. I'm not an search engine expert this the reason why I wanted to ask you.

First I came across this site by google:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

They suggest:

Quality Guidelines - Specific recommendations:

Avoid hidden text or hidden links.
Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
Don't send automated queries to Google.
Don't load pages with irrelevant words.
Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.

So again, being in respect to google, I went and did what they suggest and checked out my site at: www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html

as suggested by google.

Technical Guidelines:

Use a text browser such as Lynx to examine your site, because most search engine spiders see your site much as Lynx would. If fancy features such as Javascript, cookies, session ID's, frames, DHTML, or Flash keep you from seeing all of your site in a text browser, then search engine spiders may have trouble crawling your site.

This is what I found that I couldn't see with the naked eye.

Not one but TWO links to stat counter.

StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter counter stats

Now I dont know about you but If I cant see them with my naked eye, but search engines can see them, to me thats a hidden link.

Plus in your response you acknowledged that you DO use atleast ONE LINK

I respected your service but you know what, I do not want to get banned from google or take part in unethical techniques.

Thank you for your service.

I encourage you to delete my account completely.

My user id is wdclub

Sincerely

JB

PS: If you really wanted us to put your link, you should have told us that before and not try to sneak them in. I would have been more than happy to put it on my resource pages for all my sites.

[webado]

A hidden link is usually expressed as:




If you notice there's nothing to click on, the visitor cannot actually go to the site whose link is there, but a search engiene spider will read that and it wil either follow the link or simply usedthat to add to the number of backlinks for that site. This is a typical, though cheap trick, to increase the number of inbound links to other sites.

Hidden text is not visible to the vistor's eye because it is written in the same color as the backgound where it is displayed. It becomes visible upon selecting a block of text or when printing the page. This is yet another cheap trick to add words, possibly unrelated to the site itself, to ensure that search engines will stumble onto that page as well, while looking for something quite unrelated.

Hidden links and text are not really hidden, if you look at the source code you always see them anyway. It's the use that's made of that which is questionable.

What you are seeing of Statcounter and think it's hidden text are simply the alt tags for the 2 images involved: one is the image of your counter value as generated by the javascript portion of the counter and the other one is the alt tag appearing in the <noscript> portion, for the image rendered through the php script used. Using alt tags is practically required for rendering though text only browsers, that is the same as the image placeholder.

Nothing msyerious, as you see.

[webado]

I respected your service but you know what, I do not want to get banned from google or take part in unethical techniques.

Thank you for your service.

I encourage you to delete my account completely.

My user id is wdclub

Sincerely

JB

PS: If you really wanted us to put your link, you should have told us that before and not try to sneak them in. I would have been more than happy to put it on my resource pages for all my sites.

With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about and moreover you totally misunderstand in one breath both Google's guidelines and the Stacounter code, which is perfectly visible. You pasted it yourself on your pages! How can you say you cannot see that a link to statcounter is there?

[gen]

I dont get why there are two different alt tags. Shouldn't both tags be the same just like with other counters (actually, shouldnt it be just one tag?). I know there is one for javascript and one for nonjava, but shouldnt the alt tag be the same regardless, why make it different?

I just dont get why other javascript counters have their alt text in the code and that is what is showing on the page. Seems to me regardless of browser encountered, the alt text and code should be the same. Even with the visible counter - it has one alt text, (say web statistics) which the se spider reads, and then you rest the mouse on the counter and it says statcounter - free web tracker and counter.

[Arne]

What kind of script have you generated and pasted to your pages?
Here is the script for this particular page (Statcounter forum page) and I can't and I have a script that is similar on my pages. only the project # is change to "x"'s here.

<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" src="http://www.statcounter.com/counter/counter.js"></script>
<noscript>http://c1.statcounter.com/counter.php?sc_project=xxxxxx&java=0 (http://www.statcounter.com)</noscript>

I can't see more than one image and one "alt" tag here, and on my own codes, within the "noscript" that only show if a visitor don't have Javascript enabled.

[gen]

In order to see what I am saying, try using the visible counter. Notice the alt text says "free hit counter" or whatever in the code. Now rest your mouse cursor on image, and you get a different alt text - statcounter.com yadaa yadda. Why have two different alt texts? It seems its the same service with the same description regardless if your browser is javascript enabled or not.

[Arne]

In order to see what I am saying, try using the visible counter. Notice the alt text says "free hit counter" or whatever in the code. Now rest your mouse cursor on image, and you get a different alt text - statcounter.com yadaa yadda. Why have two different alt texts? It seems its the same service with the same description regardless if you browser is javascript enabled or not.

Why can't we just look at yours? what's the URL to your page?

[gen]

There is no reason to look at mine. It is the same on any webpage and is not a site specific event.

[soulja90]

Hello Webmaster of Statcounter,

Since you are willing to find a solution, here it is:

1. Remove the link(s) to your site from the code and instead ask members to place one of your link (Copy and Paste) anywhere on their website. Once you verify that they have your code, they can use your services for free as they were before.

This step can truly set you apart from anyone trying to compete or trying to sneak in links.

I would put your code in a heartbeat and re-add all my sites if you asked me to do that. Its called thinking outside of the box or thinking BIG. Just concentrate on the work at hand, dont worry about what you are going to get. Since your service is great you shouldn't worry about being number1 cuz you'll get their sooner than you think if you are not already are.



Thanks

JB

[Arne]

There is no reason to look at mine. It is the same on any webpage and is not a site specific event.

Okay, so in the script below from a page with a visible counter, in what way is it any different from the one I posted before?

<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" src="http://www.statcounter.com/counter/counter.js"></script>
<noscript>http://c3.statcounter.com/counter.php?sc_project=xxxxxx&java=0 (http://www.statcounter.com/)</noscript>


I can't see more than one "img" tag or more than one "alt" in it. I don't know if you and "soulja90" are just playing with us (and the Statcounter team) because you are just trolls, since you can't even come up with a website (if you have any) to prove what you say. Or if you are just stupid and don't understand what this is about. But I try to explain in a easy way that even a kid should understand.

The first part of the script abowe, is this:
<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" src="http://www.statcounter.com/counter/counter.js"></script>
The script execute the visible counter, if it's configured to be visible. The counter is an image with an "alt" text. The "alt" (alternative) text is shown only if the image should not be downloaded for some reason.

The other part of the script is this:
<noscript>http://c3.statcounter.com/counter.php?sc_project=xxxxxx&java=0 (http://www.statcounter.com/)</noscript>
Everything between the "noscript" tags is shown on browsers that don't have Javascript enabled. A browser with Javascript disabled can't execute the first part of the script, only the "noscript" part. This makes it possible for Statcounter to at least count the visitor even if no further tracking can be made about the visit.

Having an image with "alt" executed by Javascript is not considered hiding anything. Nobody can see more than one of the counters (or "alt" text) on the page. Search Engines like Google don't "see" anything within any Javascript codes, only the "noscript" part. The same goes for the Lynx browser. But since "soulja90" clames (s)he can see two Statcounter links from the lynxview page, there must be some error in the code because I can see only one link and that's the one within the "noscript" part.

If you remove the "noscript" part from the page, no browser with Javascript disabled will be counted, and no Search Engine will see the Statcounter link. But for a free counter, is it much to ask if the link is given only to Search Engines? If you remove the Javascript part of the counter code, you can't be served with any stats about your visitors, more than there has been visitors. Is that what you want?

[gen]

The reason I was suggesting the use of a visible counter was not that so you could see the code was different, which of course it is not, it was just so that you would have an image to point the mouse on so you could see the different alt text pop up (different than what is in the noscript part of the code meant for non javascript browsers) assuming you had a javascript enabled broswer. My question was why is it not the same as the noscript alt text. In other words, why not use the same alt text for both noscript and the javascript enabled alt text. But I guess it doesnt matter because the javascript isnt read.

I was a little confused because some sites were showing this text: "statcounter - web tracker and counter" - in google searches (in the serps) for statcounter - so the se spider was reading the alt tag: - but apparently that alt text - "statcounter - web tracker and counter" - was being used as the alt tex in the noscript part of some counters.

[robinev]

I like having the link on the counter image. If someone coming to my site wants to know where the numbers are coming from, they should be able to find out without having to search through the site.

As has been pointed out several times, those links are not "hidden" and won't cause you (or me or anyone else) any problems with Google.

I used to have the code set to show a counter on my main page alone. (I've recently set even that one to invisible because of too-frequent slow responses from SC.)

[Arne]

The reason I was suggesting the use of a visible counter was not that so you could see the code was different, which of course it is not, it was just so you that you would have an image to point the mouse on so you could see the different alt text pop up (different than what is in the noscript part of the code meant for non javascript browsers) assuming you had a javascript enabled broswer. My question was why is it not the same as the noscript alt text. And I guess the answer is statcounter uses different alt texts for se rank benefit.

So, the reason to all this "useless noise for nothing" is because a different alt text? How pathetic!
BTW, I can't see the alt text if the counter is visible, since I don't use Internet Explorer as my browser. The only time alt text is supposed to show is when the image is not shown. It's a alternative text after all, not meant to be a "tooltip" ("title" is supposed to be used for that).

So IE is doing it totaly wrong! Any way, I don't belive all my visitors would move their pointer over the counter, even if I had it visible. At least I don't usually do that on pages i visit.

I'm 100% with the Statcounter webmaster on this. The free service at Statcounter is great and a link from the counter (with whatever alt text they prefer to use) is a very good "price" for a counter service where you can choose to have the counter invisble if you like. Doing as "soulja90" suggest abowe, would make Statcounter much less different from other counter services.

But I do have a Statcounter button on at least one of my pages. That's not because I must, but because I think it's a great service that I want to share my experiences with others who have a site and are searching for a good counter service. So the policy Statcounter have choosen, makes them better than their competitors. Requesting (demanding) visible links in exchange for a free counter, would not be any good in the long run and the Statcounter team understand that.

[gen]

Thanks guys for your help.

[gen]

Thank you for the suggestion. If you upgrade your account you are able to remove the link from the code.



That sounds interesting. Can that be done with the $9 monthly payment plan? Doesnt it have to link back somehow to register stats?


Thanks.

[webado]

Thank you for the suggestion. If you upgrade your account you are able to remove the link from the code.



That sounds interesting. Can that be done with the $9 monthly payment plan? Doesnt it have to link back somehow to register stats?


Thanks.
The code you insert has to execute scripts on the Statcounter server. That's not a a link-back.

[gen]

Ok, thanks.

[gen]

With the $9 payment option - Am I allowed to have multiple projects each without a linkback (I'm not really interested in the extended logs) or does this $9 monthly fee apply to only one project in terms of link-back off?

If yes, does the code come without the link back or do I need to remove it somehow?


Thanks.

[robinev]

If yes, does the code come without the link back or do I need to remove it somehow?

Before webmaster gets back to this topic it might help if you explain more fully what you mean by "link back". Maybe you could highlight the snippet of code that is of concern to you.

If you're looking for something that doesn't in any way connect to StatCounter's servers, then you'd be out of luck.

[gen]

If yes, does the code come without the link back or do I need to remove it somehow?

Before webmaster gets back to this topic it might help if you explain more fully what you mean by "link back". Maybe you could highlight the snippet of code that is of concern to you.

If you're looking for something that doesn't in any way connect to StatCounter's servers, then you'd be out of luck.


Just follow the content of the posts in this thread (especially the last 6 or 7) and it should be pretty clear what I'm talking about.

[robinev]

Just follow the content of the posts in this thread (especially the last 6 or 7) and it should be pretty clear what I'm talking about.

Thank you so much for that wonderfully helpful advice. Ahem.

Here is what makes me think it would be useful if you were to clarify your question -- and it has to do mostly with "the last 6 or 7" posts. You introduced the term "link back" with this post:
Doesnt it have to link back somehow to register stats?

The answer to that question, of course, is Yes.

Webmaster's response to an earlier message suggests that the paid statcounter is configurable to display the counter numbers without also including an anchor link (<a href= ... ) on the image. But even then, something must, as you surmised, "link back" to StatCounter in order to record the statistics on their servers.

[gen]

Yes but that question has been answered already (note chrisooc informing me that server script execution code is not a "link back" and my "ok"). I'm referring to the link that is included with the code which webmaster indicated could be removed. The question now is, can it be removed across projects, or is that just one project, for the $9 monthly fee. Additionally, how is that acheived - something I need to alter or is the code preconfigured once you purchase the monthly subscription.

[robinev]

And I think it would be best if I refrained from telling you what I'd appreciate at this moment.

But, at least, you've managed to clarify your question. Thank you. That's all I was asking for.

[webado]

Yes but that question has been answered already (note chrisooc informing me that server script execution code is not a "link back" and my "ok"). I'm referring to the link that is included with the code which webmaster indicated could be removed. The question now is, can it be removed across projects, or is that just one project, for the $9 monthly fee. Additionally, how is that acheived - something I need to alter or is the code preconfigured once you purchase the monthly subscription.
Obviously you are the only person who can access your web pages and since this is html code you put in yourself, you have to replace it by new code that you will geenrate from your admin page to reflect perhaps a new external configuration.

[gen]

Does the code come altered already (link off) or must I alter it? I'm talking about the code that is served up in my account for me to then add to my webpages once I do the monthly subscription.
Is the allowed link off across projects or one project?

[webado]

Does the code come altered already (link off) or must I alter it? I'm talking about the code that is served up in my account for me to then add to my webpages once I do the monthly subscription.
Is the allowed link off across projects or one project?
You will regenerate the code to install and reinstall it, as I said before.

[gen]

Ok, but webmasters "you are able to remove the link" suggested to me that I might have to edit the code myself (remove the link from the generated code) but I will take your response as meaning that the code generated in the account comes automatically without the link back when you upgrade. Ok. Thanks.

So then, is this new link-backless code generated for however many projects I want to create?

[webado]

Gen I don't know how it works as I'm not a paying customer myself. I am sure that once you are a paying customer the entier account is covered by the same policy because it would make no sense otherwise.

[gen]

Ok. I see.

There is no mention or at least none I could find about the link off benefit available to upgraders in the upgrade benefit listing section. I agree that it would make sense that the link off would be across projects when you upgrade, but I just wanted to be sure.

Thanks again for your help.